Michelle, I appreciate your perspective on Revival. One of the best quotes I came across on revival was the preacher Gypsy Smith who wrote. “Go home, lock yourself in your room,
kneel down in the middle of your floor. Then draw a chalk mark around
yourself and ask God to start the revival inside that chalk mark. When
God has answered your prayer, the revival will be on.”
I have found that true in my life. When I am revived by walking in God’s Spirit, I find myself more tender to the things of God and more alert to being available to our Master. More sensitive to serving others and more free to share God’s truths with grace and love.
I just discovered you here a couple of weeks ago and am catching up.
Your description of Revivalism (in my opinion) compares to Munchausen-by-Proxy. You put the patient in trauma and then play the hero by rescuing them.
There is an organic way followers become aware of their sin and failings, leading to repentance and renewal. But in the late 70s and early 80s I found myself in a group where that was the only kind of preaching we heard or even thought of as The Gospel. For the record, I was with Last Days Ministries in East Texas, and the local preaching was Keith Green, David Wilkerson and Leonard Ravenhill. All three were precious and gifted men, but that kind of message, internalized and without balance, wasn't healthy.
I was a big fan of Last Days Newsletter as well as Keith Green. As much as I admired the unflinching and fiery messages coming out of Last Days, I agree with both your comparison of the revivalist message to Munchausen-by-Proxy and the notion that only these kinds of messages were truly faithful to the Gospel. The mixture of shame and idealism has little room for compassion, though adherents would say otherwise. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I'm grateful you're reading.
I missed your recent zoom call but was able to catch it by watching later. Trying to make sense of my Jesus Movement experience is the latest chapter in my reconstruction. It started around 2012 when I began questioning a lot of Evangelical Assumed Knowledge about eschatology, nationalism and ETC. (I'm still orthodox and holding to the Nicene Creed.)
What I experienced was the rarer form of Revival at the time. Much more common were the Charismatic faith healing version, and the Billy Graham stadium style with a simple offer of salvation (not exactly Finney or Edwards). What Ravenhill was preaching, and Keith appropriated, was what I now consider Fundamentalism. No surprise when it leads to condemning Catholics and constantly calling out the entire protestant church as dead.
For the first time in 25 years I'm looking for a new church, and am looking mostly into local Presbyterian and Anglican churches. Fundamentalism is at the heart of the "Evangelical Assumed Knowledge" I mentioned. In a way I consider Evangelism a kind of "Fundamentalism-Lite".
Your analysis of Evangelicalism as Fundamentalism-Lite is spot on, as is your assessment of the revivalism of Ravenhill (and by extension, Keith Green) as a holiness variant of the two big revivalisms of the Jesus People era.
Looking for a church - especially after such a long time - is not an easy prospect in this current era. Grace and peace to you as you discern where might be the best fit for you.
I might have given the wrong impression about my church situation. I've been extremely involved as a leader in an Evangelical churches for the past 35 years. I just haven't been actively looking for a new church since 2000. That's what especially makes it hard, as my close friends are all evangelical. I'm already discovering that fundamentalists exist in every denomination. I wanted to qualify that last sentence, but realized I can't.
Good distinction between genuine revival and revivalism. It seems to me that one of Satan's biggest ploys on our era is distraction, whether it be absorption with the world ,or trying to prevent its destruction, either politically or environmentally. We can even be distracted in looking at others who are distracted! It is a difficult thing to discern - what is responsible engagement and what is drawing us from our true life humbly following Jesus? Which brings us back to our need for revival and the Holy Spirit's cleansing and transformation. One group that I believe is staying focused in their call to pray for personal and church revival is OneCry. Their prayer guide and podcasts are worthwhile.
Michelle, I appreciate your perspective on Revival. One of the best quotes I came across on revival was the preacher Gypsy Smith who wrote. “Go home, lock yourself in your room,
kneel down in the middle of your floor. Then draw a chalk mark around
yourself and ask God to start the revival inside that chalk mark. When
God has answered your prayer, the revival will be on.”
I have found that true in my life. When I am revived by walking in God’s Spirit, I find myself more tender to the things of God and more alert to being available to our Master. More sensitive to serving others and more free to share God’s truths with grace and love.
I just discovered you here a couple of weeks ago and am catching up.
Your description of Revivalism (in my opinion) compares to Munchausen-by-Proxy. You put the patient in trauma and then play the hero by rescuing them.
There is an organic way followers become aware of their sin and failings, leading to repentance and renewal. But in the late 70s and early 80s I found myself in a group where that was the only kind of preaching we heard or even thought of as The Gospel. For the record, I was with Last Days Ministries in East Texas, and the local preaching was Keith Green, David Wilkerson and Leonard Ravenhill. All three were precious and gifted men, but that kind of message, internalized and without balance, wasn't healthy.
I was a big fan of Last Days Newsletter as well as Keith Green. As much as I admired the unflinching and fiery messages coming out of Last Days, I agree with both your comparison of the revivalist message to Munchausen-by-Proxy and the notion that only these kinds of messages were truly faithful to the Gospel. The mixture of shame and idealism has little room for compassion, though adherents would say otherwise. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I'm grateful you're reading.
I missed your recent zoom call but was able to catch it by watching later. Trying to make sense of my Jesus Movement experience is the latest chapter in my reconstruction. It started around 2012 when I began questioning a lot of Evangelical Assumed Knowledge about eschatology, nationalism and ETC. (I'm still orthodox and holding to the Nicene Creed.)
What I experienced was the rarer form of Revival at the time. Much more common were the Charismatic faith healing version, and the Billy Graham stadium style with a simple offer of salvation (not exactly Finney or Edwards). What Ravenhill was preaching, and Keith appropriated, was what I now consider Fundamentalism. No surprise when it leads to condemning Catholics and constantly calling out the entire protestant church as dead.
For the first time in 25 years I'm looking for a new church, and am looking mostly into local Presbyterian and Anglican churches. Fundamentalism is at the heart of the "Evangelical Assumed Knowledge" I mentioned. In a way I consider Evangelism a kind of "Fundamentalism-Lite".
Your analysis of Evangelicalism as Fundamentalism-Lite is spot on, as is your assessment of the revivalism of Ravenhill (and by extension, Keith Green) as a holiness variant of the two big revivalisms of the Jesus People era.
Looking for a church - especially after such a long time - is not an easy prospect in this current era. Grace and peace to you as you discern where might be the best fit for you.
I might have given the wrong impression about my church situation. I've been extremely involved as a leader in an Evangelical churches for the past 35 years. I just haven't been actively looking for a new church since 2000. That's what especially makes it hard, as my close friends are all evangelical. I'm already discovering that fundamentalists exist in every denomination. I wanted to qualify that last sentence, but realized I can't.
Good distinction between genuine revival and revivalism. It seems to me that one of Satan's biggest ploys on our era is distraction, whether it be absorption with the world ,or trying to prevent its destruction, either politically or environmentally. We can even be distracted in looking at others who are distracted! It is a difficult thing to discern - what is responsible engagement and what is drawing us from our true life humbly following Jesus? Which brings us back to our need for revival and the Holy Spirit's cleansing and transformation. One group that I believe is staying focused in their call to pray for personal and church revival is OneCry. Their prayer guide and podcasts are worthwhile.
I agree with your definition of revival!